Sunday, March 30, 2008

Evidence of Idiocy



As if she hasn't done enough damage, I ran across this on another list that I am on:

FOR WORLD AUTISM DAY: APRIL 2 – Jenny McCarthy & David Kirby for a full
hour on LARRY KING LIVE

Wednesday, April 2

On World Autism Day, the controversy over vaccines! Do they contribute
to autism, or is there a greater risk going without? Actress and mother
of an autistic child, Jenny McCarthy, debates the issue with medical
professionals.


Now Larry King doesn't strike me as being very balanced on this (he has had Jenny on several times regarding autism). But the one good question he did ask recently was regarding adult autistics, to which Jenny responded that she'd never met any. Since King is basically a celebrity junkie and not a journalist I guess I can't blame him for going with B grade celebrities that will boost his ratings.

I guess the only good that might come of this upcoming show is that eventually even people that are not really paying attention will start to get the message that Jenny is a total air head, and has absolutely no science or reason to back up her beliefs.

On Larry King's website:
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/
if you go to the April 2nd show, there is a button where you can submit questions for the guest (I guess it's cheaper to have the audience make up the questions rather than have a researcher). I'm counting on the "medical experts" on the show to carry the factual side regarding vaccines, so I asked
Jenny,

Do you still believe that you are an "Indigo Mom" and your son Evan is a "Crystal Child"? If so, what do you base this on?


I encourage everyone to go there and submit your own questions. I don't even want to comment on Kirby. He seems to have the minimal intelligence necessary to know that he's totally screwed up.

39 comments:

Camille said...

Cool. I asked her if she used Immunosciences lab to show her kid had "yeast overgrowth" and if so did she know that that lab lost it's license because the tests were bogus?

I also asked her if she tried to cure Evan's seizures with crystal therapy.

Joeymom said...

Jenny , David, and... who is presenting the other side of this "discussion"?

Niksmom said...

You know, this post would have been perfect even without all the words if you just left the title and the photo! ROFL.

Ahem, sorry for my catty remark.

Can't wait to see how many of the questions they DON'T use...

Casdok said...

Am so glad she hasnt come over to the UK (yet!).

Do'C said...

Jenny,

For the benefit of regular parents, who may not know as much about the prevalence of autism compared to someone as intimately familiar with the issue as yourself, would you explain how the criteria for diagnosing autism has changed over the past two decades?

Also, what is diagnostic substitution, and what do either of these thing have to do with an autism "epidemic"?

Dad Of Cameron (autism blogger)

Emily, as some know me said...

Dear Jenny:

Did you have your degree from Google U matted and framed?

Best,
Emily

Obviously, I haven't posted a question to her. I think it's time to start holding the mainstream media--or just the media, whether they're mainstream or just tributaries--responsible for behaving as though this were a legitimate connection still undergoing legimitate investigation in the world of science and medicine. They are simply propagating misinformation and can be doing real harm. Their job is to give people the truth, insofar as that is possible. It is not "truth" to present this stupid autism-vaccine controversy as something having two medically or scientifically legitimate "sides." And that needs to stop.

kristina said...

Seems well to let her do herself in with her own stupidity/idiocy/etc.....

Marla said...

Argh. Will there ever be an end to it?

Sharon said...

It's just to hard to think of something polite to say about that woman, so I'll say nothing at all.

However, I love "the web" in your side-bar. Buddy Boy has such great vision.

quicksilver said...

AMAZING
ABSOLUTELY AMAZING
This mother gets her child vaccinated and he has his brain damaged by mercury vaccines and its not toxic vaccines but the mom at fault.
In England with Sally Clark they went one better and gave her double life in prison.
Her son died 4 hours after the supposed SAFE vaccines.
She was released EVENTUALLY.

quicksilver said...

Please remember ALL the people damaged by mercury vaccines started out BELIEVING in vaccines.

ONLY after they saw their child destroyed or damaged do they stop to think.

Those that get their children vaccinated with no problems or believe the pain should be stopped by more medication to give time for the swollen head to subside still believe massive over vaccination in the face of scientists like Charles Richet on anaphylaxis should realise one size does not fit everyone.

Club 166 said...

@Quicksilver,

Thanks for your reply. One must remember that correlation doesn't equal causation. Just because two things happen around the same time (some vaccinations and recognition of autistic symptoms) doesn't mean that one caused the other.

Jenny McCarthy is not a reliable medical source. She doesn't even begin to understand anything surrounding vaccines or autism. She speaks purely from her "mommy instinct", which is fine, except for when she tries to translate that instinct into rational thought.

For a start I would read this article
regarding her medical accuracy.

Joe

quicksilver said...

Correlation and causation

It is true that two unrelated events can happen at the same time.

But if we use this logic we would prove NOTHING. What is epidemiology if not the same thing?

Sally Clark’s baby had a vaccine at 4.30pm and the baby died at 10.30pm.

The VAERS is a record by doctors, nurses and the general public and amounts to 250 000 adverse reports in less than 20 years for one country only. This pushes the correlation is not causation to absurd levels. It also means epidemiology must count for nothing?

250 000 adverse effects and they are all just a coincidence. One size fits all it seems? I got a vaccine with no problem so little junior gets them too and never mind the head swelling up to twice its size just pop another vaccin or half a dozen into the little darling.

Sally Clark was a loving mother and was with her child alone for the time that her husband made a cup of tea or coffee. In this time in the same small house the prosecution claimed she battered her baby so hard that she broke nearly every bone in his body and he became unconscious and later died after attempts at resuscitation. The husband noted nothing unusual. The prosecution claimed this AND suffocation by the mother at the same time. So the prosecution case relied on suffocation and strangulation and battering while hubby makes coffee. Dont two different things leave two different sets of clues? The baby has no marks of injury external but the inside is all but destroyed. Here the correlation and causation is simply because the mum was with the baby when the child went into anaphylaxis. Obviously selctive use of epidemiology, correlation and causation or simple Witch Finding?

I presume you are familiar with the work of Charles Richet and 500 other scientists on the effects of anaphylaxis after a vaccine?

When vaccines were few and far between so was autism.

The correlation of over-vaccination – 6 times for the same vaccine to get what effect? – gives a clear signal for concern.

The headstrong attitude that vaccines by the hundred are fine and 500 scientists of the standard of nobel Prize Winners are wrong makes USA the worst industrial country for losing lives in childhood.


It is true that two unrelated events can happen at the same time.

Correlation and causation proves nothing

We can look forward to more and more vaccines and what about asthma, cancer and autism.

Two finger’s to Chrles Richet that’s certain!

quicksilver said...

The cause of autism is the cause of autism.
It doesn't matter what degree you have or havent got.t
Why do we not know the cause of autism after 70 years?
Why do we know that the 7 year old didn't get ill from a weakened immune system after multiple vaccines destroyed her particular immune system?
Why do we have 1 in 3 asthma now?
Why is cancer through the roof?
Where did AIDS come from?
Just 3 other things knocking on the door of over-vaccinations.
Its OK to have one person die from a vaccine preventable illness but quite another to have every other person die from conditions unheard of years ago.
No, this thing is not one answer fits all.

We have serious health issues and no one facing up to them.

It's just the DOW JONES propaganda and PROFIT.

Joseph said...

I doubt there's such a thing as "the cause of autism" and I think most people remotely familiar with autism science realize that.

On the point about epidemiological studies, they are done on populations, so there's a difference statistically. Confounds in epidemiological studies may exist, and the purpose of science is to rule out or confirm said confounds as more and better research is carried out. In Evan's case, to claim that he was brain damaged by vaccines is to make an unsubstantiated claim without a factual basis.

quicksilver said...

A cause of autism

There has to be a cause for anything.

Faith and religion even have some basis in fact.

If vaccines cause autism this doesn’t mean that mercury cant cause autism.

If GMO virus fragments cause autism then that doesn’t rule out the first two.

The problem is that all three and more are found in vaccines.

One of the problems with epidemiology is that the world famous experts like Sir Dick Doll were paid 1 500 pounds each and and every day of their life by vaccine type companies. To receive such money for the major part of ones career may or may not have an effect on your data and what it tells you?

I know what I would say or not say if offered 1 500 pounds each day to say whather vaccines are good or bad. And that is yesterday’s money as the good epidemiologist is no longer part of the human race if ever he was.

He did have the qualifications that should have made him aware of what is money for research and what constitutes a bribe?

I put my money anyday on Jenny in preference to a Dick Doll.

There are more than a million autism sufferers and Jenny does not have one in her family.

Her degree in Google or whatever has enabled her to cure the uncurable.

Power to her elbow and not to hands in pockets feeling for corrupt money?

Club 166 said...

@John (quicksilver),
Where to begin? You seem to have a lot of things going on here, many unrelated to the original post.

Certainly there are "causes" for everything. But just because we don't know all of the specific causes of something doesn't mean we get to make stuff up just because it sounds good. In science, we like to see proof, which is something sorely lacking in the vaccines cause autism speculation.

I'm not sure where you get some of your facts from. As to asthma being "1 in 3" the latest data that I could find from the US shows a prevalence of between 8-10% or so. Where do you get your rate that shows it being 300% greater?

I'm not sure what the Sally Clark case has to do with this post. No one ever said that all vaccines are 100% safe. No medicine or substance known to mankind is (not even water or salt). I have no idea whether Sally Clark was railroaded or not. But even if she was, it proves nothing concerning vaccines and autism.

As to Sir Richard Doll, I am not very familiar with him. But from reading this obituary, it appears that he did a lot in identifying things like tobacco and radiation as being harmful, and in pushing for doctors to get their patients to quit. Sounds admirable to me.

As to cancer, I would think the biggest reason that cancer rates have gone up is that we are an older society than we used to be. As medicine has gotten better at things like heart disease, we live longer and get more cancer. There are probably also some environmental and dietary factors, but I would think increasing age is the biggest factor.

AIDS? Are you saying that vaccines cause AIDS? Where do you get this stuff?

Oh, and anaphylaxis? I don't get what you're referencing with that. But if you're saying that Sally Clark's kids died from anaphylaxis, I'd say you're wrong. I've treated people with anaphylaxis. It happens in seconds to minutes, not hours.

Thanks for replying again.

Joe

quicksilver said...

Hi

Sorry if I have strayed way off the target but with some decades of work in areas like this I do take exception to people trying to tear apart Jenny Mccarthy. Jenny McCarthy is finding things out that amaze me even with my longer time looking at vaccines and their normal unwanted effects.

OK she has no scientific qualification. But she has me beat in many areas including that of being able to bear children.

Pliny the Elder wrote a 37 volume encyclopedia more than 2000 years ago and probably had more knowledge than most people today.

Knowledge isn’t necessarily needing to be modern or to be the sole territory of the over qualified. And it doesn’t have to be all the flavour of the month of genetic analysis.

Common sense counts for much more. The very notion of harm from vaccines comes from the earliest days and evidence of railroading abounds.

The work on anaphylaxis for example was carried out in the 1902-1913 time with a Nobel Prize for Charles Richet.

In effect the injection of even harmless proteins can induce death of the person or animal in a mechanism to save the species from destruction.

Harm to children is in fact of this type.

Anaphylaxis can be quick but it can be slow. The fact that laws deny its existence after hours, weeks or even months or years does not mean it doesn’t happen. Guillain Barre syndrome takes weeks to occur. Multiple Sclerosis takes months to happen.

The destruction of the life of Karen Wetterhahn took 5 months before the effects of the toxic harm cut in. She had a 5 month holiday from a small mercury spill getting through her skin and an equal time for the body to self destroy itself.

By recognition of the nature of the harm to the brain of her child, Jenny was able to bring him back to normality. He is no longer in the autistic spectrum of illness.

The very nature of autism implies it has a toxic origin.

The statistics show that something like 1 person in 500 suffers from vaccines. Epidemiology is a very wasteful way of looking at the problem and gives enormous scope for data manipulation.

Lots of studies take samples and process results from less than half. When you are looking for minor occurrences or very major illness it is easy to phase these out as chance.

All the episodes of gene jumping when a vaccine produces the illness it is supposed to prevent are ALL because the person was already ill with the disease.

Even your spec of anaphylaxis in minutes is side stepped. The VAERS where a patient dropped dead before the needle was taken out was not vaccine related.

Andrew Wakefield is at this moment being disciplined in the UK for daring to suggest vaccines are not 100 per cent safe.

More Railroading?

The AIDS origin revolves around the GMO manipulation of SV40 with Ecoli which was work done in the 1973 era by Paul Berg. Maurice hilleman is on record of claiming the credit would you believe it for injecting millions with SV40. Once the virus adapts to life in humans then AIDS is a likely outcome.

Funny that in the mad rush to do genetic analysis I cannot find much on typing of AIDS as it mutates from the 1973 type to later adaptatations.

The whole area of safety from scientific research and drugs and vaccines presents a double edged sword the sharp and dangerous edge is kept from the light.

One in three comes from a reputable source but even 1 in 10 is wow too many.

Sir Richard Doll did lots of good work. Well this area is also very dark with people like Professor Black et al mysteriously dying and these were the people who really thought radioactivity was bad. I seem to recall that UK epidemiologists blame the metal wires for the harm and the plutonium was a bit like mercury not really really harmful at all.

I have to smile. Somebody will be picking up the pieces one day or are we heading for another Dark Age?

Joseph said...

There has to be a cause for anything.

Well, yes, but in some cases the thing you're trying to find a cause for may be so complicated that you will never find a discrete cause or set of causes. It might be that it literally has infinite possible causes, including some that will never occur in reality, but could theoretically occur.

That's especially true if we're talking about a phenotype that someone (Kanner & Asperger) thought should be classified separately from everything else, but which can only be ascertained through a subjective observation of behaviors and nothing else.

What is "the" cause of mental retardation, for example? Can you exhaustively enumerate all causes? Are all causes known? I doubt it. Will all possible causes ever be known? Does it matter how long mental retardation has existed as a construct?

What is "the" cause of short stature? Again, same problem.

Joeymom said...

I've never seen anyone in the mercury crowd be able to explain my child's autism, despite his not being exposed to mercury in vaccines, and being autistic from birth (before he had any). Nor can they seem to explain why my other son is NOT autistic.

Most articles on autism out there stress cases of regression. What about kids like mine, who did not regress, and were showing signs of autism from a far earlier age?

If all autism is caused by vaccines, explain the children who are autistic without receiving any vaccines.

Does something cause autism? Why do people like to discuss this in the singular?

Club 166 said...

@John (quicksilver),
Anaphylaxis involves the release of histamine. Serum and urine histamine levels are elevated in anaphylaxis, as is tryptase. I have never seen these findings associated with Guillain-Barre or MS. Again, the time course of G-B and MS is totally wrong for anaphylaxis.

I attack McCarthy not because of her lack of formal credentials, but because of her non-sensical and totally unsupported beliefs, which she puts forth as fact.

We agree on one thing. If Jenny McCarthy is to be held up as the standard for scientific inquiry, then indeed we are headed for another "Dark Ages".

Joe

geosaru said...

This is my question:

Previously Jenny's only remark about autistic adults is that she hasn't met any. There are many autistic bloggers of various "functioning levels". If Jenny got her degree from Google U as she has said, then why didn't she mention Autistic Adult Bloggers 101?

Maya M said...

Joe, why don't you delete at least some of the Quicksilver's comments? Freedom of speech is a good thing, but it doesn't mean that a blog author is obliged to let trolls take over his blog. If some readers want to read nonsense of the sort Quicksilver offers, they can go to his blog.

quicksilver said...

To Maya

Explain just one thing I said that is nonsense.

I say one thing only because after 40 years work it is difficult to distill in one message so many things.

To Joeymum

You say that mercury whas never been given to your child?

I take it then that you have given no injections or had no injections for your child?

Mercury as of April 1st 2008 is still in some vaccines.

To everyone

A million autism children in USA in 2008 and the rise in autism in 2000 in China at zero to 1 500 000 in 2008 when the USA offloaded mercury vaccines to them a few years ago is NO JOKE.

Someone will need to pay for the harm IF THEY CAN.

Also explain how Jenny cured an ‘incurable’ illness.

Joseph said...

A million autism children in USA in 2008 and the rise in autism in 2000 in China at zero to 1 500 000 in 2008 when the USA offloaded mercury vaccines to them a few years ago is NO JOKE.

Anyone who thinks there was no autism in China before 2000 is a joke, frankly. The only other person who has said that is John Best. Can't you even do a PubMed search? Geez.

quicksilver said...

Hi Joseph

What causes mental retardation ?

Well one thing that helps is a swollen head and the demise of the child that survives.

Examining a young child that had head swelling after a vaccine (from more than a third to nearly double the normal size) I discovered there were more than 300 causes of such an event of which the vaccine cause is not in the list although recorded ad nauseum by parents and measured with contempt by doctors and nurses. The doctors fabricated the SBS charge in 10 minutes and then rather belatedly looked for the proof after getting the parents arrested. At no time for nearly a fortnight did the child get medication for anaphylaxis. How can they choose SBS in preference to many very difficult to diagnose problems if they ignore their own head measurements showing repeat head swelling after each of three lots of vaccines administering at times in every arm leg and buttock of the sick child which was done by the accusing doctors less than 24 hours before.

In the event one cause only made the day, that of SBS and the dad got a long prison sentence. The destruction by chemicals is long known. The destruction by physical abuse leaving the outside untouched is new ‘science’.

Again harm from vaccines callously dismissed with yet another term in prison. Cf Sally Clark.

There are many more innocents in prison than people like Sally Clark et al who have been released. At no time has the vaccine ever taken the blame.

The child above is still alive. The father free now and facing huge bills for care. The next child unvaccinated is very well indeed.

Vaccination are good for lots of people but death or maiming for millions of unfortunate others who not only don’t get recognition but often the doctors mistake is compounded by harrassment of the parents. SIDS is not a death from unknown causes.

I have not had any problems with vaccines for myself or my family but would not force vaccinations to one day children or give 10 vaccines at a time and for heavens sake listen to the signs of pending doom.

And yes, we are entering dark ages when such clear signs are STILL taken as NO SIGNS.

Vaccination is a 200 year old technique of medical practice with emphasis that we still practice and have not mastered the art of completely safe vaccination and probably never will.

But dont harrass the families that have to look after sick children for life. Jenny is just one such person. BRAVO for curing the incurable.

I am campaigning for the world wide removal of mercury from vaccines. The continuing use is covered by propaganda that has even the head of the CDC arguing there is no longer mercury in vaccines. A clear and to me criminal lie as seen by the millions of chinese babies now developing autism from mercury vaccines not good enough for USA infants but good enough for A N OTHER baby.

quicksilver said...

The Chinese society for Autism did not exist before 2000 and something.

I would imagine that similar societies existed for much longer in USA and other countries by then?

We have the Chinese founder complaining that the illness was at the time completely unknown.

We can see the rates rising with vaccine use in China.

600 000 a few years ago, Now as said getting on for three times this figure and RISING.

That as said in USA is not genetic but clearly genetically weak people succumb to chemical toxins in vaccines.

The history of the toxins is to big to put here but needless to say when confronted with the statement that mercury was in vaccines the USA regulators themselves thought it was madness until they discovered where the madness was coming from.

The removal has been voluntary and mostly by assuming there is good mercury of which we can say with ‘honesty’ there is no mercury.

How simple just to give a PPB figure on the side of the vaccine container?

It is easy enough to put on the side of a cigarette packet just what the effects of nicotine are.

But we are talking of throwing away stocks that have been around for decades and worth a FORTUNE.

Drug wars that are LEGITIMATE?

Emily, as some know me said...

If mercury is causative of autism, then China ought to have some of the highest rates of autism in the world, and that should be a fairly longstanding statistic. There ought also to be high rates of autism among peoples living near in in the Arctic.

People living in China have been exposed to enormous levels of mercury for millennia, taking it medicinally and experiencing high levels as a result of mercury mining and coal burning, which is unbelievable in that country unless you experience it for yourself. I refer you here for a 2006 summary: http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag/40/i12/html/061506feature_jiang.html

As for the Arctic, there is high deposition of anthropogenically produced mercury at the poles (along with persistant organic pollutants) and levels are high in organisms that serve as primary dietary staples. It has already been shown among indigenous peoples in these areas that mercury contamination has led to nerve and brain damage and developmental effects in the children.

Autism rates ought to be astronomical, especially compared to the continental US or Europe, in these areas of extraordinary mercury contamination and exposure via just about every possible route. Are they?

Emily, as some know me said...

MMR never contained mercury in the U.S. That is, of course, the vaccine that started all of this nonsense in the first place...allegedly because of the mercury that was in the vaccine, but that wasn't actually in there. This entire "controversy" grew from a completely false construct. Anyone ascribing to it ought to be embarrassed on that count alone.

Measles kills hundreds of thousands of people worldwide every year. Most of them are children. Hospitalization rates for measles among children clock in at 20%.

For the record, ANYTHING can be toxic. As Paracelsus said, the dose makes the poison. And it is completely possible for us to come through exposures to things that we consider "poisons" without ill effects--the dose makes the difference. Water is a toxin, depending on the route of exposure and dose. But I don't see anyone getting their knickers twisted over water, per se, being "toxic." Vitamin C at a suitable dose can trigger miscarriage. Potassium is required for our survival, but it can also kill us. People have always been walking around with heavy metals in their bodies (zinc, anyone?), at considerably higher doses than those currently causing controversy (including mercury and arsenic). The irony is that probably many many people who get cacacoocoo over mercury wouldn't hesitate to ingest a metal like iron or selenium or to coat their bodies in an oxide of one like zinc or to drink from an aluminum can or use aluminum foil and they probably spend little to no time at all worrying about lead, which is all over the place. Mercury is a scare word, but if the fear is legitimate, we also ought to be going on and on about lead, arsenic, aluminum, PBDEs, POPs, and other known toxins that flow through our bodies--vaccines or not.

Club 166 said...

@Maya M,
I don't often delete any comments. Out and out spam gets deleted. Personal attacks get deleted. Stupidity, silliness, and falsehoods are left up, to stand on their own.

@quicksilver,
Most of what you say is nonsense, or at least half truths. Your statistics are off, your understanding of medical conditions is flawed, and you seem to have no understanding of how medical systems develop in third world countries, or of environmental controls (or rather the lack of such) in such countries. Nevertheless, as long as you keep things civil, you're welcome here.

@Joseph,
Thanks for your common sense.

@geosaru,
Good question!

@Emily,
Thanks for the references. It's always nice to have accurate data to draw conclusions from.

@Joeymom,
My son is the same, in that he's always been autistic. Doesn't quite fit the "damaged" stereotype.

Joe

Joe

quicksilver said...

Hi Emily

You make many points which I am afraid shows that you listen to propaganda rather too much.

No mercury in MMR. WRONG. Ask Merck whether they put mercury in MMR – their reply if honest and you can get a reply will be yes, we did put mercury in MMR but we didn’t tell anyone and we denied it for years. To Merck ‘good’ mercury means NO mercury. But if you go and look at Karen Wetterhahn you find a delay of 5 months from ingestion to first sign of illness. Neomycin is not the universal preservative for MMR. There are a large number of preservatives in use.

MMR started all this HALF RIGHT but what is worst a vaccine possibly at 15 months ie MMR or a loaded with mercury vaccine HEP B at age 1 day and then suffering with every vaccine after?

For me HEP B is at the heart of some of this. The head circumference measurements show the harm done.

Paracelsus - its the dose. SORRY Paracelsus was nearly 500 years ago and in his case the science HAS advanced a lot. Not that he was a scientist more an astrologer which isn’t reckoned as being too scientific. And yes by dose he was referring to water and foods rather than toxins like mercury and plutonium of which he would be totally ignorant of.

First of all mercury is a catalyst. This means that the dose is unimportant for an effect. Yes it may take longer but this is the only difference.

And of cause you mention loads of mercury. This is the ‘payment’ for industrial civilisation. But the form of mercury is put into 3 groups of which the inorganic has the least toxicity by a long way. Having said that mercury is very toxic and has been banned certainly in UK schools for at least 50 years. It is at a rough guess 1 000 times MORE toxic than lead and we are now (after much and long denial by the oil industry) certain of its harm to the brain. Remember mercury is 1 000 times more deadly.

It certainly doesn’t make sense to labour the point that we have had pollution in the past from mercury. There have been more than a dozen previous catastrophes involving mercury. The vaccine and mercury is still being argued about. This is the current problem that people are denying to the point of keeping mercury in vaccines as of April 1 2008 and no joke.

The route of ingestion is critically important. We have a long history of eating food and non foods. Our ability with respect to injection of even safe chemicals is almost ZERO.

You mention here potassium present in sea salt but of course used for lethal injections in amounts where you would hardly taste the salt. We can eat but we can’t inject the stuff.

Mercury and lead poisoning in the past was rather like today with all the world denying harm and when proven everyone going strangely quiet. The dose received by Karen was less than that in one vaccine. Her death in 1997 probably started the whole mercury investigation and hence the finding that mercury was in vaccines for humans but had been pulled from every other medical use almost including vaccines for animals because of harm from it.

No one has ever proved any amount of mercury injection is safe. Further because of the grandfathering in of vaccines no proper checks have been done on vaccines for more than 100 years. I have spoken to some of the foremost scientists on toxicology and they cannot argue their point to any degree of scientific exactitude or rigour. They leave out potentiation, catalytic action and even get their chemical calculations at times wrong. And of course play the dose card too. This often is the best card in their hand and very very old. The modern cards just ignored completely.

Look at the first Gulf War where all the US troops were vaccinated and a sizeable number are now dead or permanently ill. I beleive around a quarter to one third. Their current age if still alive about 30 ish. France no vacs still has most of its soldiers still very much alive and very much fit. Their proportion now dead at least ten times less.

Even Government regulators found that mercury was connected to autism back in the lmast century but they never published their data and have since ‘LOST IT’ in any case. The reason for losing it? Possibly a trillion dollar reason?

We seem to be in agreement that mercury is toxic but you seem to think it is OK in childrens vaccines and is of no worry. Is that what you are saying Emily? For me anyone doing that should be charged with manslaughter and that has happened in one country. The same country that didnt over vaccinate its troops and did bring in a ban on 1 day vacs for HEP B a long time ago. FRANCE possible with the worlds best health system?

Addendum.

Still waiting for one statistic to examine in detail. Which one is off target?

Third world health? I thought this was the testing ground for new drugs? Or in the vaccine case the dumping ground for drugs? Correct me if I am wrong. I can’t imagine China resting tranquil for ever on the mercury in vaccine business. In fact at many points they have halted the vaccination scheme. One day they may not be too please to have had millions of mercury filled vaccines. We get up tight with heavy metal even if theoretically there is no hazard unless we eat non edible objects. Injecting harmless proteins was proved harmful a gundred years ago. Quite what Charles Richet would say to harmful stuff being injected into one day kids boggles the imagination.

Getting back to topic.

What did you want Jenny to do with her autistic child? Leave hime to grow up like that or are you pleased she has cured her son of his condition.

The attack on her is totally wrong and almost makes you think we are glad to have epidemic autism around us and just accept them and be happy with them?

I think it is bad for a country to have made a substantial number of people with poor brains. Poor brains equates to uncivilised behaviour and in line with autism we do see much goings on in the USA which even 50 years ago would be unheard of and believed the world of FICTION. Today terrorism is booming. WHY?

quicksilver said...

Hi joeymom

You have an autistic son I believe?

You say it has nothing to do with vaccines and mercury?

HEP B at day one has mercury in it.
some mums get rhesus injections during labour. (rhogam)
Some mothers get MMR vaccines at birth and then breast feed the baby.

The evidence is there if you look.

I do not follow peoples views when they say they havent been vaccinated. Often the vaccine is given without permission.

Any analysis of vaccinated with unvaccinated throws up huge differences in the two populations.

The first diagnosis of autism was comparatively recent (1943) and analysis even here points to the mercury connection not realised until the hunt for mercury was on which it has been for just a few years. (Since 1997 or later)

If you dont look you wont find.

Chelation is the mainstream medical way of removing lead from people.

Using the same medical mainstream for mercury has time and again shown that challenge pulls out mercury at rates which can be almost too high where previously the measurements were very very low.

Facts like these need to be explained.


The only rational explanation is that a significant amount of autism is related to heavy metal exposure and the genetic weakness to eliminate this.

The biochemistry is know in great detail.

Tests cost money but improvement can and has been accomplished.

Just doing nothing means that time itself is the only healer and for autism not a good one.

I agree with the comment on personal attacks completely.

So what exactly is this blog about if not personal attack?

Club 166 said...

Jenny McCarthy is a public person, who spews grossly inaccurate and made up things publicly (and makes good money doing so). Since she is making money spewing such garbage as she does, I admit to being a tad more liberal in going after her views. But I don't hold anything against her personally.

As it happens, Kristina Chew linked to this article regarding an 18 year old autistic person in China today. That would mean he was born in 1990. Sort of puts a lie to the "0" incidence of autism in China in 2000.

Joe

Emily, as some know me said...

Quicksilver, having been elbow deep in research related to mercury and other contaminants, I can't agree that I've been listening to "propaganda." I'm sorry, but I simply don't engage in conversations with whacked-out conspiracy theorists who haven't bothered to exercise basic critical-thinking skills. I've gotten too old for that and must choose more wisely. Good luck.

quicksilver said...

Hi Joe

I am sorry but to me this is a very personal attack on Jenny. Jenny is no more public or less public than anyone else in the news.

We are talking of rates of autism from ALMOST zero to epidemic levels.

The plague wiped out variously from 10 per cent to half the world’s population.

The cases that occurred before in every day parlance would have been zero or nearly so.

We are arguing about things that are important but are relative to the problem in hand.

The autism syndrome is a ‘payment’ of being an industrialised civilisation some people argue.

If we want to exmaine one case in 1990 in China then so be it.

But the fact that there are now 1 500 000 cases today makes such a study academic at best.

OK Emily put forward some good points about mercury in the atmosphere and in the drugs of Chinese medical treatments.

If we look at ancient figures then yes we would predict possibly that China should have more autism than the west.

But with the current explosion these low figures are just that of academic interest.

What has caused a ten fold to hundred fold rise in the rate of autism?

With mercury as the number one suspect even by Emily the influx of cheap mercury laden vaccines fits the bill for one thing to be examined in detail.

That is if we are interested in finding out how to stop the rise?

Putting negatives forward does not help fight autism treatment or the cause.

Lying about it being taken out of vaccines is also a rather negative and protectionist attitude.

Lets look at old figures of autism in the world.

The normal zero level seems to be around 1 case per 10 000. China with its problems may have a zero up to ten times this very low figure then?

But if you tare or zero this back to 0 you have to explain where 40 to 90 or more new cases per 10 000 are coming from that weren’t there just 20 years ago.

OK so its not ZERO absolute but ZERO relative to EPIDEMIC LEVELS.

However you look at it it is serious and especially so for those caught in the rising number of cases.

Is mercury the sole cause? Of course not. We know of the effects of rubella and possibly even the rubella vaccine on breast fed children from the mum. We know of thalidomide and its effects other than flipper births. There are other red hot favourites for not just autism but other brain degenerating conditions.

But none of this EXCUSES mercury in vaccines.

And lastly my own poor attempts at research or even Jennies are no reason to deny the true cause of a catastrophic and now epidemic ILLNESS. And no reason to ‘kill’ the messenger.

Lets work together and stop it.

But how do you stop anything by denying the worlds most toxic non radioactive element plays no part when in massive amounts and injected repeatedly into babies hardly out of the womb?


That is GROTESQUE! In France it attracts manslaughter charges.


Question:

Can you tell me just one grossly or even minor inaccuracy coming from the mouth of Jenny? I talk of SERIOUS comments relating to mercury, autism and treatment not the life style or faiths she has. Serious scientific issues concerning our fight to stop and reduce autism.

I have many views and interests completely unrelated to autism which are not to be associated with the autism issue. I am working in parallel on the history of the French English language and finding things not previously known about or not written down about the similarity of the languages. These are hardly issues the basis for bringing into an autism debate but a completely different part of my life.

quicksilver said...

The story of the Chinese boy with autism who was born in 1990 would not exclude the vaccine theory at all. It would be possible to get western vaccines for the very rich even at this time.

The rise in autism in the west commenced at around this time as well. I had friends from China at this date and earlier who came over here to work and study. Going back to China when the exchange rates were halved and the money was not sufficent to keep them in their studies.

The problem with this case like many is we know a little but not enough to decide anything except the need to investigate the case further.

The world was not isolated into different regions and by 1990 integration would be possible and explain such cases. Using Emily’s ideas the case would certainly not be unique.

Dan Olmsted did a good study on the first cases from 1943 and found a mercury connection even from what he could discover going back to the cases.

It is of note that Dr Bettelheim often pilloried for his refrigerator theory would have been horrified to see modern society say there is nothing to be done for autistic children. One of the reasons for his now outdated idea was that it gave hope to parents that there are things to be done to help.

Emily may consider me conspiracy minded and wacky but this is the defence against a lost cause or what?

I am happy to admit my error if wrong. All I ask is for serious debate.

My efforts to deal with government are turned away with contempt, propaganda and LIES.

Anyone who says mercury is out of vaccines as of April 2008 is clearly lying.

You cant eliminate disease or illness if you allow the cause to continue.

A simple thing like nits never stops to amaze me.

The removal of nits from everyones hair on one day would result in it being a health problem of the past.

It continues to make millions for the pharma industry and chemicals not unrelated in their action to mercury.

Place this neurotoxin on the head of the child and leave to soak in for 12 hours.

Is this not CONSPIRACY? In the army short hair is one way out of a nit crisis. Does the pharma companies have an interest in eradicating a health problem or do they want to make piles of money?

France does have a good health system but the chemists or pharmacie seems to be one of the few shops or magazines that survive in even the smallest towns and cities.

Once a child becomes autistic the costs of the child become astronomic. This in itself is of concern to a conspiracist that believes not everyone is a saint in our world and not every tyrant is immediately obvious.

Anonymous said...

Well, this certainly is a "smoking gun":

"The Chinese society for Autism did not exist before 2000 and something."

And this proves....what? Perhaps John/Quicksilver isn't aware that China is not as open as the US, UK and EU to the formation of groups, associations and clubs.

The American Society for Microbiology wasn't formed until 1899. Does that mean that microbes didn't exist in the US until the late 1800's? How about the National Down Syndrome Society, formed in 1979? Does that mean that Down Syndrome didn't exist in the US until the 1970's?

What twaddle!

He goes on to say a number of other half-truths and full-falsehoods, including numerous references to Sally Clark, whose conviction was a gross miscarriage of justice. However, I can find no evidence that she or her legal team ever argued that vaccines caused the deaths of two of her children.

Sad to say, but "Quicksilver" appears to be suffering from the delusional thinking and megalomania seen in true mercury poisoning. Perhaps the mercury-induced tremor (a nearly universal sign) is causing his poor spelling and puctuation.

A concerned citizen

quicksilver said...

Mercury MUST be removed from ALL vaccines if we are to reduce autism.

I do not purport to be producing a rigourous work of English or even a rigourous proof that mercury is toxic.

Does that mean that I cannot write good English or does it mean that mercury is an IQ improver and food as purported by vaccine regulators and scientists?

Facts and science stand on merit and accuracy and not the qualifications or prose of the author.

The microbe society was formed AFTER the existence of microbes was known to man evidently. If it was formed before it would have to be a Science Fiction Society and they do exist especially where they claim the benefits of mercury in vaccines.

But what it does tell us is that the human race in all its claimed intelligence did not or was not aware of microbes until around this time for sure.

I seem to remember many cartoons of the time you mention poking enormous fun at these scientists and their bugs they observed through the microscope. The journalists clearly mocking the science of people like Pasteur.

Very careful science done at this time put the microbes into firm fact. Today we are aware of the existence of microbes and of their necessity to the flora of our guts. Something that antibiotics seem unaware of.

It isn’t easy to know everything about everything as you can imagine but as a chemist the incorporation and even the present and cointinued incorporation of mercury into vaccines is INADMISSABLE.

Perhaps you might like to say what you think?

The Downs society was formed as late as 1979! Wow! Does this show contempt for the people identified nearly 200 years before! Why so long for a society for these people? I can guess but it wouldn’t be very charitable thoughts. It is an astounding piece of information to imagine how these unfortunate people have been totally abandoned by society for so long. In my research I did note that organophosphate exposures by families results in over incidence of Downs people. Perhaps this illness too has a toxic cause in some cases? This research examined families who ate fish contaminated with OP’s over used by the fish farm people in Hungary. We have a lot to learn even today on illness and its causes.

Moving to another area I know quite thoroughly is the Sally Clark case. You are right that vaccines were not the issue. The expert witness of Sir Roy Meadow one of the greatest experts on vaccines put paid to any useful discussion along these lines. That does not mean that the vaccine did not directly kill the baby boy Harry. Bearing in mind that mercury in vaccines does not kill Staph Aureus one of your microbes we did not know of in 1899 but which was no doubt present in nature for thousands of years has the nasty trick of actually growing and multiplying in mercury loaded vaccines.

The baby was clear of infection and perfectly well before his injection. Again Professor Sir Roy Meadow gave expert testimony to this effect.

So where did the Satph Aureus come from that killed this boy? It certainly wasn’t there in the lad before his injection. And certainly hadn’t invaded his brain. Mercury and toxins in general weaken the blood brain barrier. Well established fact.

We will never get to the bottom of exactly why Harry died but we can make very educated guesses that explain all the facts.

The fiction that the mum battered and strangled the infant in the time that her husband made a coffee was at a sufficient level of proof to get her double life in Her Majesty’s Prison.

My idea of vaccine death from a possible Staph Aureus infected vaccine is not without substance and as plausible as the one that got her life behind bars.

There are other factors and a multiple cause is likely. But other people died from the same vaccine lot and also got life terms. Some we know have been released but others may still be falsely accused and still in prison today.

Anyone who covers up and condones mercury in vaccines is not only party to murder but other crimes as well.

The best step forward is POSITIVE thoughts on autism causation and not at miniscule criticism of lack of punctauation bad spellings or other failings which have little or no serious consequences.

Can we get things into proper perspective?

Autism is at the moment a lifelong illness except for people like the family of Jenny who somehow know things autistic experts do not.

It affects millions of people.

It is now epidemic.

Simple measures like not putting the worlds most toxic non radioactive element in vaccines and injecting them into pregnant mothers is not an insignicant failing of government and regulators of vaccines.

My name is John, yes John Fryer an Advanced Analytical Chemist with several degrees and lifelong knowledge of chemicals and their effects.

Are you staying behind your anonymity?

This problem of killing and maiming has gone on too long. I refer to the epidemic of autism and even SIDS after vaccines for the past thirty years. Another thing we claim total ignorance of and glibly speak of coincidence or more darkly SBS, battering and strangulation by a mother. Vaccines do save lives but at the current rate of extermination there will come a point when intelligent people think before giving dozens of vaccines at the same time.

Sally lost two children to the mantra of mercury laden vaccinations. She did have a third child who did not follow the same loony over toxic vaccinatiion policy. He is today a healthy and more carefully vaccinated boy. He owes his life to the fact that two siblings lost their lives to vaccines and the penny dropped with Mr and Mrs Clark or certainly their doctor.

How long before the penny drops for you?

A concerned chemist

S.L. said...

Awesome--love your question! Thanks for adding that link (WSJ) in your comments. Had not seen that before, it's a good read.

Sad to see that World Autism Day is now officially over. Thank goodness we have the whole month of April for "awareness" though. Yeah, right! :)